Another Blog from UK Partnerships for Christ (www.upfc.org.uk)

The Resurrection of the Dead by Jason Wright

resurrection image

The Resurrection of the Dead by Jason Wright

Introduction

“But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raisedAnd if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.” (1 Corinthians 15:13-14)

Jehovah’s Witnesses pride themselves on preaching the “good news of God’s Kingdom”. This Kingdom, they say, will encompass two resurrections. The first they call the “heavenly resurrection” wherein a limited number of 144,000 will be chosen to rule with Christ in heaven over the earth. The heavenly resurrection is said to be “spiritual” that is the recipient receives a new “spirit-creature” body similar to angels.

Moreover the Watchtower states that Jesus himself “was put to death as a human, [but] Jehovah did not allow His faithful Son to remain in the Grave…God resurrected Jesus, but not as a human.”[1] According to this statement Jesus was not raised in the same body in which he died. Like the 144,000 Jesus is said to have received a spirit-creature body at his resurrection, his human body being dissolved by Jehovah.

We might pose the question “if Jesus in his pre-incarnation was Michael the Archangel perhaps he took up that body again?” or did he need a new spiritual body because “Jehovah had dissolved Michael’s original body?”[2] Confusing stuff! Unfortunately most witnesses do not think through the ramifications of such teachings.

The second resurrection the Watchtower calls the “earthly resurrection” wherein the dead of all the ages will be brought back to life[3]. Earthly resurrection bodies are said to be like our current bodies but “perfected”. Conjectures abound over what exactly a perfect body can and cannot do. Here in the Paradise earth each resurrected person (as well as Armageddon survivors) will enter into what Russell termed a “trail for life” viz. the personal opportunity to learn about “Jehovah” and become obedient servants and thus obtain eternal life. Please note eternal life is always dependent on maintaining eternal obedience.

In this study article I wish to explore the nature of the “resurrection” by comparing scripture with Watchtower doctrine. For example what type of body do we receive? Does death bring annihilation or does our consciousness remain? Are there really two types of resurrection: one to earth and one to heaven? If not then what does the Bible really say about mans destiny?

In order to answer these questions we will begin by exploring man’s nature, the concept of soul/spirit[4] and life after death. Next we will ponder Adamic sin and the ransom sacrifice, giving particular attention to Russell’s doctrine of the “corresponding ransom sacrifice”. It is necessary to grasp these antecedent doctrines before going on to examine the somatic (bodily) resurrection of Jesus, the believer and the unbeliever. In conclusion we will discover the scriptures present a radically different resurrection picture to that proposed by the Watchtower society.

Overall it will be argued that the Watchtower has misinterpreted the biblical resurrection and instead promulgates a false resurrection doctrine that should be categorically rejected.

The need for a Soul/Spirit.

When engaging Jehovah’s witnesses on the topic of resurrection the first monumental hurdle to overcome concerns the nature of man. The Watchtower emphatically denies that humans are composite beings of body, soul/spirit; instead man is viewed like the animals, singular in nature, a physical body animated by breathing which they like to call a “living soul”. For the Watchtower it is only mans reason that differentiates him from the animals. Thus similar to atheists, Jehovah’s Witnesses teach: “When you are dead you truly ARE dead – YOU – the person – cease to exist”. Much like the extinguishing of a candle, once the flame of life is snuffed out the light of existence is gone. Such a position may appear logical and rational however scripture explains otherwise.

Zechariah 12:1 “the Lord [Jehovah]…forms the spirit of man within him.

Luke 1:46-47 “And Mary said: “My soul exalts the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.”

Romans 1:9 “God, whom I serve in my spirit

Romans 8:16 “The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God”

1 Corinthians 2:11 “For who among men knows the [thoughts] of a man except the spirit of the man, which is in him?”

1 Kings 17:21-22 “O Lord [Jehovah] my God, I pray thee, let this child’s life [Heb. soul] return to him.” And the Lord [Jehovah] heard the voice of Elijah, and the life [Heb. soul] of the child returned to him and he revived.”

Matthew 10:28 “And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [Gr. Gehenna].”

Revelation 20:4 “And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus…and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.”

For a review of the “Soul”[5] please see:

https://watchtowerinvestigated.co.uk/2014/04/05/reasoning-from-the-scriptures-review-soul-by-jason-wright/

There is then a necessary connective between soul/spirit and resurrection. By soul I don’t mean a ghostly, ethereal, apparition living inside us, but rather by soul I mean the supra-physical consciousness that makes us who we are[6]. We may call this the immaterial part of man.

Interestingly the Greek word for resurrection (anastasis) confirms the body/soul connection. Anastasis “signifies either rising up or standing erect of someone who has been in a reclining position. Therefore resurrection in its basic sense  denotes restoration to life after an interval spent in the realm of the dead[7] (Sheol/Hades[8]).

Here then is the first major flaw in Watchtower “individual eschatology”, viz. we have no soul. However if we have no soul and cease to exist at death it raises the question as to how anyone can we be resurrected. For there is in reality nothing to resurrect! If death has annihilated the “me” then how can you or I “rise again”? It’s impossible to resurrect someone who does not exist! Yet the Watchtower continues to promulgate the idea.

Such a doctrine does not represent the true resurrection of scripture. Instead the Watchtower presents a type of re-creation wherein a new clone-like individual in created. Below is an example of how the Society attempts to reconcile the resurrection/annihilation dilemma;

“Resurrection is a restoration to life of the nonexistent dead…It is an act of God dependent entirely on God’s marvelous power through Christ and upon the memory of the dead. It is the reactivation of the life pattern of a creature, a transcription of which is on record with God, and is referred to as being in his memory”[9]

Surely we have here a serious contradiction. How can the nonexistent dead exist in the mind of God? If they are in his mind surely they DO exist albeit in a disembodied state. The idea of reactivation and transcription is false if the dead are truly nonexistent. However, if consciousness does exist in God’s memory then the dead do have a postmortem existence. You cannot have it both ways.

If then as I have argued humans do have a postmortem existence as disembodied spirits we may ask where do such spirits reside? And what are they waiting for? According to NT revelation the intermediate state is spent either in Sheol/Hades or heaven depending on your salvific state before death. Space does not permit an in-depth discussion of this topic. Suffice to say the intermediate state precedes bodily resurrection.

Consequently while man was created as a composite whole, body, soul/spirit sin has affected this reality. After the fall of man a separation took place. Firstly mankind’s direct relationship with God was severed, secondly his body began to degenerate and finally at death his mind/consciousness (soul/spirit) was ripped from his body; the ultimate separation – disembodiment in a conscious afterlife (Genesis 3:3, 15).

The apostles confirm that they themselves believed in a conscious afterlife. Both Peter and Paul understood the difference between the soul and the physical body. At death each looked forward to “being with Christ” and in due course receiving a resurrection body (soma).

2Pe 1:13-14 “I think it right, as long as I am in this body, to stir you up by way of reminder, since I know that the putting off of my body will be soon, as our Lord Jesus Christ made clear to me.”

2Co 5:1-4 “For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked. For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.”

Philippians 1:21 “For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh [body], that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.”

Adamic Sin and the Ransom Sacrifice

Before proceeding we must understand what doctrine underpins the Watchtowers understanding of resurrection.

Russell formulated his individual eschatology around the erroneous doctrine of the “corresponding ransom sacrifice”. This doctrine teaches that the perfect man Adam sinned and subsequently lost perfection. In order to reclaim perfection all that was required was a corresponding perfect man. That could have been any perfect man, but Jehovah is said to have chosen the Archangel Michael who at the incarnation became Jesus. Through perfect obedience unto death Michael/Jesus is said to have become the equivalent to Adam. In this way Jesus cancels Adams sin and makes eternal life possible for all through the earthly resurrection[10].

Watchtower salvation (if it can be called that) is not based on the “finished work of Christ” but rather Jesus is said to be the corresponding sacrifice providing a foundation from which man can work to provide his own salvation. However is Adamic sin canceled in this way?

Firstly the Watchtower while it “acknowledges inherited sin, does do not have any real concept of sin’s awful penalty”[11]. What was required was more than equivalency. Through Adam sin and death had entered the world, however Jesus did not just die for Adams sin but for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:2 “He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world”. [12]

Consequently Jesus died in the stead of those who deserved death. This makes Jesus sacrificial death more than equivalency; Jesus is a substitute[13]. He takes upon himself our individual sin. He takes the punishment of sin. He pays off our debt. No human, no matter how “perfect” could redeem the whole of mankind in this complete sense. To take upon oneself the sins of the world required a divine substitute, nothing less would do. How could a created angel forgive sin and impute righteousness? Only a God-man could achieve this (John 1:1, 14; 20:28).

Hence Jesus the Son of God veiled his deity and provided himself as the atoning sacrifice for our sins (Philippians 2:6-7). Once Russell attacked and rejected Christ deity his heretical teaching of “corresponding ransom sacrifice” was easily realized. However, for those who do accept Jesus deity the outcome is wonderful. No longer do we live under condemnation. No longer do we work to earn salvation. Instead, a restoration of relationship and fellowship between the believer and God occurs.

1 John 1:1-3 “ That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ”.

The burden of redemption falls on Jesus shoulders not ours, what Jesus accomplished is a “finished work” on behalf of sinners. Even if we allow for the Watchtowers teaching that the unrighteous dead will be given opportunity in paradise to earn salvation the truth is that NO individual could ever make himself or herself righteous before God. Why? – Because man cannot earn salvation. Salvation is a gift from God received by faith in Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

To reiterate; Salvation is a FREE gift received by FAITH in Jesus sacrificial death.

2 Timothy 1:8b-10 “the gospel by the power of God, who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, and which now has been manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel”

The reconciliation of man to God has been accomplished through the death and bodily resurrection Jesus Christ. This is a complete work; there is nothing to add. All we can do is enter into this redemption by faith.

2 Corinthians 5:21 “For our sake he made him [Jesus] to be sin[14] who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God”.

Jesus HAS paid the price for YOUR sin and MY sin – the debt we owe HE has paid! Acceptance of Jesus substitutionary sacrifice brings immediate results:

  • It satisfies God’s justice (Romans 3:23-24)
  • It removes the guilt of Sin (Romans 6:23-24; Hebrews 9:26)
  • It redeems the sinner (Galatians 3:13)
  • It imputes to the sinner righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21; Revelation 14:4)
  • It gives eternal life (John 3:16; 6:40; 10:28; 1 John 5:11)
  • It guarantees our salvation (Ephesians 1:14; Hebrews 7:22)
  • It guarantees our body resurrection and glorification (Romans 8:23; 1 John 3:2)

It is heartbreaking that God’s provision of redemption has been rejected by Jehovah’s witnesses in favor of Russell’s “second chance” heresy.

The Somatic Resurrection of believers

Paul introduces the resurrection doctrine to his Corinthian brethren with these words:

1Co 15:3-4 “For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day[15] in accordance with the Scriptures”

Please note Paul’s emphasis on resurrection, viz. “he was raised up” (Greek ἐγείρω) = “to cause someone to live again after having once died—‘to raise to life, to make live again.[16] Paul drove home the reality of Jesus BODILY (somatic) resurrection. It is imperative to understand that Jesus was the “first fruits” of a much larger heavenly harvest wherein believers experience BODILY resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:22-23 “For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all[17] be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.”

Note the resurrection takes place at the “coming of Christ” and refers to the heavenly resurrection, no mention here of any earthly resurrection. Paul envisions a heavenly harvest; Jesus had “inaugurated the new creation (John 20:22; 2 Cor. 5:17) and become the forerunner and guarantee of the subsequent admission of his people”[18] (Heb. 6:19-20).

Please understand the Corinthian error was not denial of the soul or afterlife but denial of the BODILY (somatic) resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:12 “Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?”

The Corinthians had carried over into their Christian faith a skewed platonic understanding of mans nature. “To the Corinthians the body was the source of man’s weakness and sin; death therefore was the welcomed means by which the soul was liberated from the body. In their thinking to receive a [resurrection] “body” would enslave the soul again”.[19]

Similarly the Watchtower has a serious problem with bodily resurrection. In part this is due to a skewed eschatology. C T Russell insisted that Jesus return (parousia) took place invisibly in 1874 (later revised to 1914) this insistence on invisibility resulted in Russell concluding Jesus own resurrection must have likewise been invisible/spiritual. A key proof text presented is 1 Peter 3:18;

“For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit

“In the spirit” is interpreted by the Watchtower to mean that Jesus was not resurrected BODILY in the flesh, but rather he rose as a spirit creature (whatever that is?). However the verse actually says that Christ was raised IN “the spirit” NOT “as a spirit” the reference here then is to the work of the “Holy Spirit” whom “raised Christ from the dead”[20]

Paul knowing the Corinthian error raises a rhetorical question: “But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?” You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.”

Paul is here concerned with the BODILY (somatic) resurrection of believers. In verses 37-44 he contrasts various types of “body” concluding that God gives to each its own body specific for its task. We may ask the same question today. How are the dead to be raised IN WHAT BODY?

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.”

Unfortunately the phrase “spiritual body” conjures up in the mind of witnesses the idea of a non-physical non-human body. However Paul has already stated clearly that we are dealing with a physical BODY (soma). The question is how is the physical BODY raised. Firstly we are born or sown a body that is animated and controlled by psuche (life/Soul). Our Adamic body is perishable, weak and eventually dies. Gloriously believers will be raised with spiritual bodies such bodies will be controlled and animated by the spirit.

However we must be careful not to interpret these verses with the idea that our new bodies are entirely different, rather you might say we receive a heavenly upgrade. Our current physical bodies even though they perish at death are destined to bear the image of the man from heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:49 “Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.”

Romans 8:11 “If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

Therefore at the somatic resurrection of believers, Christians will receive a reconstituted body that is raised in glory. Such a change is essential as the earthly adamic body of “flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom” (v.50) because it was not designed for existence in heaven, consequently our perishable body must be changed to fit the new realm of existence[21].

Jehovah’s witnesses may argue that Jesus body was not the same body because he was able to appear and disappear at will, entering locked rooms, etc. hence they say he must be non-corporeal. However Jesus clearly identified himself as being in the SAME BODY, providing evidence to his apostles with his crucifixion wounds.

Luke 24:39 “See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

Furthermore the Psalms foretold that it would be Jesus OWN BODY that was raised from the dead:

Psalm 16:9-10 “Therefore my heart is glad, and my whole being rejoices; my flesh also dwells secure. For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol, or let your holy one see corruption (cf. Acts 2:27).

It was this reality, viz. Jesus had truly risen from the dead in his own body that galvanised the disciples to proclaim the Gospel message. They were eye witnesses of Jesus bodily resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:5-8).

“It is a point of very great importance to remember that the Corinthian’s were not denying the resurrection of Jesus Christ; what they were denying is the resurrection of THE BODY. Today Jehovah’s witnesses proclaim the exact same thing. Yet what “Paul is insistent upon is that if a man denies the resurrection of THE BODY he has thereby denied the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and has therefore emptied the Christian message of its truth and the Christian life of its reality.”[22] These are sobering words and should awaken Jehovah’s witnesses to the true reality of resurrection. Jesus was raised in the same body yet a body now glorified.

Additionally it is clear from 1 Corinthians 15 that when Paul expounded the resurrection doctrine he had in mind ALL believers, not just a specific 144,000 as the Watchtower teaches. In his letter to the Philippines Paul announced;

Philippians 3:20-21 “But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.”

How far does this transformation go?

1 Corinthians 15:53 “For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

Wow! Is this registering in your mind? Our mortal and corruptible body must put on immortality![23] That is the promise of God and the invitation is open to ALL! “With the acquisition of a spiritual body a new corporeality is gained, our new body becomes the organ of mans relationship with God and the redeemed”.[24]

Furthermore the resurrection is a here and now reality spiritually speaking. How do we know this? By the simple fact that the Father has “raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 2:6) “having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead” (Colossians 2:12). “The present life of believers is based on the life and power of Christ (Rom 5:10) which stems from Jesus resurrection (Philippians 3:10). Our life now is sustained by the indwelling risen Christ”[25] (Galatians 2:20a). Thus the resurrection simply confirms and consolidates our present position of eternal salvation by faith alone in Christ alone (John 6:40; 10:9)

This is the true and authentic teaching of scripture. How pathetic are the ramblings of the Watchtower with its two class-system of salvation. How blasphemous to replace resurrection with re-creation, wherein only a chosen few inherit heaven leaving the remainder of resurrected humanity forever striving to be “good enough” to continue living on earth.

The Somatic Resurrection of unbelievers

When it comes to the unsaved dead the Watchtower appeals to human sentimentality. They teach that the majority of the dead should receive a “second chance in paradise”. Some witnesses may suggest that apostates remain in extinction but by and large the Society teaches that the unrighteous dead will be presented with a “get out of jail free card”. This is borderline universalism and most appealing to the human mind. I remember as a witness how I felt when my non-witness Grandfather died, while I was saddened I told myself “well at least he will get a resurrection and chance to learn about Jehovah in Paradise” and this is how many witnesses view resurrection; a second chance. However the scriptural destiny for the unsaved dead is far more alarming.

We have already explored how Russell’s understanding of resurrection was informed by his doctrine of “corresponding ransom sacrifice”. Yet what do the scriptures say about the unrighteous dead? Firstly we have already established from scripture that all humans have a soul; a supra physical part that transcends death. We have also confirmed that at death those who believe in Jesus experience disembodiment and transferal into heaven where they await their bodily resurrection and glorification. Where though are the unbelieving dead?

The souls of the unrighteous dead according to scripture are retained in the underworld; an ambiguous holding place entitled Sheol in the OT and Hades in the NT.

Isaiah 14:9 “Sheol (underworld) beneath is stirred up to meet you when you come; it rouses the shades (disembodied spirits) to greet you, all who were leaders of the earth; it raises from their thrones all who were kings of the nations.”

Here the disembodied souls await their resurrection; but resurrection to what?

Daniel 12:2 “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”

Ancient Judaism taught postmortem retribution. During the inter-testamental period the abode of Sheol was understood to be divided into two main sections; Abrahams bosom (probably synonymous with Paradise) wherein the righteous dwelt and a place of darkness, fire and anguish wherein the unrighteous dwelt. The two groups are portrayed as separated by an impassable chasm (Luke 16:22; 23:43). This concept was expanded and “Apocalyptic literature proclaimed a future judgment that would separate the good and wicked so that they no longer shared the same underworld”[26].

Isaiah 26:19 “Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy! For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead.

The NT revelation picks up on contemporary Jewish thought concerning Sheol/Hades and judgment. Thus is especially so in Luke chapter 16 where Jesus himself expounds the doctrine[27]. Sin then does not go unpunished. God himself demands justice be done, he cannot simply forgive sinners; the price of sin must be paid.

1 Peter 3:18-19 “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison

Herein Peter attests to a divine proclamation going forth to the “spirits in prison” identified by many as fallen postdiluvian angels (cf. Jude 6). Again divine punishment for such angels is axiomatic. A similar proclamation of Judgment awaits the unbelieving dead.

In all of this we must grasp that it is Jesus bodily resurrection and glorification that secures Christ victory over Satan, his hosts, death and Sheol/Hades. For example in the case of the righteous dead trapped in Sheol scripture informs us:

Ephesians 4:8 “Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.” (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions[28], the earth? He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)”

Many scholars believe this phrase “he led a host of captives” refers to the righteous dead trapped in Sheol. Death had figuratively speaking “taken believers as prisoners of war and kept them captive in Sheol”. At Jesus ascension he released these souls and took these captives into heaven. What was the condition for release? Pre-death FAITH! That is prior belief in the God of Israel, in short acceptance of the Gospel message[29]. Such is the power of Christ resurrection.

What though of those unbelievers in Sheol? This is where we must fully comprehend the consequence of sin.

Could my zeal no respite know,

Could my tears forever flow,

All for sin could not atone;

Thou must save, and Thou alone.

“The powerful lesson that must be learned quickly is that no human can pay for his or her own sin”[30] Therefore the unbeliever remains under the penalty of sin when he or she refuses to accept Jesus atoning sacrifice. Physical death does not annul this consequence but rather consolidates judgment.

Hebrews 9:27 “…it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment

Revelation 20:11-13 “Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.”

Note the Judgment described is based on what individuals have done during their earthly life. For this reason many scholars believe Revelation 20 relates the resurrection of unbelievers to Judgment.[31] The physiology of those resurrected is undisclosed. However to be raised from the dead one must logically possess a body therefore it is conjectured that the unbeliever will receive an eternal body fit for habitation in Gehenna.

Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.”

This statement introduces the final destiny of the unbeliever; the eternal fire viz. Gehenna. Unfortunately the rendering of Sheol/Hades/Gehenna & Grave as “Hell” has confused and obscured the various abodes of the dead. Suffice to say the abode of Gehenna is designed and prepared for Satan, his angels and the unbeliever.

The Watchtower rejects the doctrine that Gehenna is an eternal habitation. Instead it teaches the doctrine of annihilation. For example, according to Jehovah’s witnesses an unbeliever resurrected back to Paradise earth, could end up eternally destroyed if they fail to maintain 100% obedience. However the bible does not teach such nonsense. Condemnation is not through lack of obedience but a lack of faith.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”

The result of unbelief is Judgment and wrath;

Romans 2:5-6, 8 “But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. He will render to each one according to his works: but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.”

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9 “Since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction[32], away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might”

Here we have the motifs of deprivation and retribution both of which are eternal in duration and applied to unbelievers. Remember Gehenna (hell) exists because unbelievers are eternally guilty before God. It is not a matter of working off your sin you simply cannot escape your guilt. God’s justice demands that the unbeliever remain eternally separated from his face. The enormity of this banishment and its finality should awaken even the most hardened heart to repentance.

“The concept of resurrection to judgment cannot be dismissed as foreign to the NT simply because it is repugnant to our sense of tolerance or because it is difficult to reconcile with a God of love. The hard facts remain.”[33] For a complete review of “Hell” see the video: Is Hell an eternal abode?

Review and Conclusion

We have compared the Watchtowers teaching on resurrection with scripture and found its doctrines wanting. We have noted that a faulty understanding of Jesus nature, sin and redemption (soteriology) creates a matrix into which is planted a skewed resurrection doctrine.

Foundationally the Watchtowers denial of the soul/spirit and insistence on annihilationism makes null and void any notion of bodily (somatic) resurrection. Rather individuals who have died and gone into nonexistence must be re-created. That means the person created will not be the same person who died, any suggestion that Jehovah some how stores individual consciousness/memory contradicts the annihilationist position.

Furthermore the NT nowhere divides believers into two groups viz.144,000 heavenly and the remainder earthly. Neither does the NT teach that unbelievers are resurrected to earth in order to receive a “second chance”. Rather the NT invites all believes into the same heavenly destiny.

In the case of Jesus scripture makes clear his resurrection was in exactly the same body as he died and yet one which had been glorified. Thus Jesus was most definitely not raised as a “spirit-creature”. Wonderfully Jesus is the “first fruits” of the resurrection. As such believers are guaranteed their own bodily resurrection and glorification.

Romans 8:16-17 “The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.”

Romans 8:30 “And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.”

1 Corinthians 15:12 “Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised [bodily] from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no [bodily] resurrection of the dead?”

To deny the bodily (somatic) resurrection of Christ is to deny the Christian faith. Christianity stands or falls on the truth of Jesus bodily resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:13, 16-17 “But if there is no [bodily] resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.”

Here then is the consequence of Watchtower error; adherents remain in their sins! Why? – Because they have rejected the true nature of Jesus and the Gospel concerning his death, burial and resurrection. In so doing Jehovah’s witnesses have rejected Gods free gift of salvation and therefore remain sinners eternally guilty before God.

In the OT “the punishment for breaking the Mosaic Law was death and separation from God. Likewise sinners alive today need a way to escape the righteous judgment of God. Since we are stained by sin and cannot earn salvation, then the only one who could do what we cannot is God Himself. That is why Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:14). He is both divine and human. He was made under the Law (Gal. 4:4), and He fulfilled it perfectly”. Moreover only deity can give life (John 11:25). Unlike the pathetic doctrine of “corresponding ransom sacrifice” as invented by Russell scripture makes clear sin requires a sacrifice of infinitive value. The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ provides that “all sufficient sacrifice” which is able to “cleanse all who beleive from their sins and undo the offense to God.”[34]

We have also explored the biblical teaching concerning death and the afterlife concluding that the resurrection is the reunification of soul/spirit with the physical body. Eternal life and eternal damnation are two sides of the same resurrection coin. Both believers and unbelievers receive bodies’ fit for their new habitation. One group because of their faith in Jesus is assigned to heavenly glory while the other group because of their rejection of Jesus is condemned to Gehenna. Both destinies are eternal and irreversible.

Which group do you belong to? Remember death does not end with annihilation, nor does God offer a second chance on a Paradise earth; resurrection ends in either glory or condemnation.

In conclusion Jehovah’s witnesses despite their “Christian” language and terminology proclaim a different Jesus and a different Gospel. For all the above reasons the Watchtowers teaching on resurrection should be categorically rejected.

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness much of what you have read will be confusing and difficult to comprehend. Please don’t reject off hand this information. Instead seek the Lord for clarification and enlightenment.

I pray this study will act as a stepping-stone for God fearing people to uncover the magnificent things of God including the true resurrection doctrine. Life eternal is but a confession away.

Acts 17:27 “seek God…he is actually not far from each one of us”

May the LORD richly bless you in your walk with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Shalom

Jason

FOOTNOTES:

[1] http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/hope-resurrection-of-dead-loved-ones/

[2] https://watchtowerinvestigated.co.uk/2013/01/12/is-jesus-michael-the-archangel-looking-at-what-does-the-bible-really-teach-chapters-4-and-10/

[3] The question of who actually receives a resurrection has vacillated over the years, particularly in regard to “wicked” or “apostate” people. For example concerning the people of Sodom and Gomorrah Russell in his “Divine Plan of the Ages” 1915 ed. page 110 wrote, “the glorious doctrine of restitution of all mankind…our Lord teaches that the sodomites did not have a full opportunity; and he guarantees them an opportunity”. Later in the Watchtower June 1st 1952 (vol. page 338) the explanation was “[Jesus] was pinpointing the utter impossibility of ransom for unbelievers or those willfully wicked, because Sodom and Gomorrah were irrevocably condemned and destroyed, beyond any possible recovery” In 1982 the WT publication “You can live forever in Paradise on earth” stated “Although they [the people of Sodom] had been very immoral, we can expect some of them to be resurrected”. The 1989 revised version stated “The people of Sodom…suffered a destruction from which they will never be resurrected” These quotes unveil the flip flop, yes/no interpretations of the WT and negate any claim to having Jehovah’s special guidance.

[4] In the context of afterlife Christians disagree on whether Spirit and Soul are synonymous or different. I have used Soul/Spirit synonymously. For further discussion see: http://www.gotquestions.org/soul-spirit.html

[5] If the Soul is actually the “inner person” our consciousness and we do survive the death of the body we might ask from where does this “soul” originate? Sadly I have heard Christians say that “souls/Spirits” are made in heaven and await a human body on earth. This idea of pre-existence and transmigration comes from Greek philosophy. The doctrine did affect the Alexandrian School, Origen being a chief proponent. In modern times this view is similar to Mormonism and cannot be proven from scripture. As we have established God made man Imago Dei a composite whole (Trichotomy/ Dichotomy) so we should reject the Greek view of transmigration.

That leaves us with two Biblical theories. 1) Traducianism 2) Creationism, both of these views are valid and acceptable explanations. Both views agree that the soul comes into existence at conception.

According to Traducianism the souls of men are propagated along with the body by generation, and therefore transmitted to the children by the parents. In other words at conception a new Imago Dei being comes into existence. Just as original sin was passed onto Adams offspring so creative life was passed onto offspring. Traducianism would argue that no scripture speaks of God creating a “soul” separate from the whole person.

The second view Creationism while agreeing with Traducianism that the soul comes into existence at conception argues that God himself performs the creative act of making the soul. That is, the origin of the soul is not procreative but divine. The major problem with this view is how do we reconcile a sinful body with a divine pure soul? How would such a combination interact? For myself Traducianism better explains the transferal of sin to the “whole” person body/soul/spirit. However we cannot be dogmatic on this as the Bible is ambiguous on this subject.

[6] The IMMATERIAL element in man is referred to in Scripture by the use of at least NINE (9) different terms:

‎1. Life (Mk. 8:35)

‎2. Soul (Mk. 8:36)

‎3. Spirit (Ps. 31:5)

‎4. Mind (Rom. 7:25)

‎5. Heart (Eph. 6:6)

‎6. Strength (Lk. 10:27)

‎7. Self (1 Cor. 4:3, 4)

‎8. Will (1 Cor. 7:37)

‎9. Affections (Col. 3:2)

‎This is not to say, of course, that these terms are all synonyms. Each refers to the immaterial self from a discernibly different point of view, or describes a different function of the self. (Duffield, G. P., & Van Cleave, N. M. (1983). “Foundations of Pentecostal theology” (125–134). Los Angeles, CA: L.I.F.E. Bible College.)

[7] R. N. Longenecker “Life in the face of death – the resurrection message of the New Testament” Wm. B. Eerdmans Pub. 1998 page147-148.

[8] Hades is the NT equivalent to the OT Sheol. These words (depending on context) represent the abode of the dead, the underworld, the holding place of disembodied souls/spirits.

[9] “Make sure of all things” WBTS Brooklyn 1953, page 311.

[10] http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/draw-close/justice/god-gave-jesus-ransom-sacrifice

[11] E. C. Gruss “Apostles of Denial” Presbyterian and Reformed Pub. 1970 page 142.

[12] For a discussion of limited atonement see: http://www.gotquestions.org/unlimited-atonement.html

[13] The Greek word “antilutron” (ransom) in 1 Timothy 2:6 emphasizes the thought of substitute ransom NOT equivalency as in the Watchtower sense.

[14] Jesus did not literally become sin for he was sinless, rather he took upon himself the punishment of sin.

[15] Where was Jesus for three days after his spirit/soul left his body? Cf. http://www.gotquestions.org/where-was-Jesus.html

[16] Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Vol. 1: Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.) (262). New York: United Bible Societies.

[17] Russell applied this verse to the earthly resurrection insisting that the word ALL encompassed everyone who had ever lived. However it is clear from reading the whole context that Paul is discussing the heavenly resurrection of believers.

[18] Murray J. Harris “Raised Immortal – Resurrection and immortality in the New Testament” Wm. B. Eerdmans pub. 1983 page 111-112.

[19] Charles Ryrie NASB Study Bible footnote on 1 Cor 15:12.

[20] Incidentally it should be noted that while the Watchtower insists that the Father alone raised Jesus from the dead, 1 Pet 3:18 states the Holy Spirit raised Jesus and in John 2:19-22 Jesus claimed he raised himself; “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” But he was speaking about the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken”. We have then clear evidence that the triune YHWH; Father, Son and Holy Spirit each played a role in the resurrection. Cf. https://carm.org/jesus-raise-himself

[21] Witnesses often quote this verse to prove that a body of flesh cannot inhabit heaven. However they fail to understand that a glorified body can indeed inhabit heaven.

[22] William Barclay, “By What Authority?” Valley Forge: Judson Press, 1974.

[23] Immortally is not self-possessed but finds its source in the one who is alone immortal viz. God (1 Timothy 4:17)

[24] Harris page 163

[25] Harris page 108.

[26] A. E. Bernstein, The Formation of Hell UCL Press 1993 page 172.

[27] Whether this is a parable or literal example is open to debate. The main point is that Jesus believed and accepted the reality of Sheol/Hades as the abode of the dead.

[28] The language here is ambiguous and could simply mean the grave or planet earth.

[29] The Gospel is not limited by “time and space” but stretches across history encompassing all who believe in the true God.

[30] E. W. Lutzer “One minute after you die” Moody Pub. 1997 page 139.

[31] Others feel the bodily resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous is simultaneous. My understanding is that the first resurrection, viz. the rapture of the Church precedes the general resurrection.

[32] “Olethros (‘destruction’) does not refer to annihilation, which cannot be ‘everlasting’ The word in LXX and NT usages never has this meaning but rather turns on the thought of separation from God and loss of everything worthwhile in life” (Dr. Constables notes on 2 Thessalonians page 5).

[33] Harris page 184-185.

[34] https://carm.org/christianity/christian-doctrine/why-did-jesus-have-die-our-sins

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Categorised in: Hell, Jesus Ressurection

15 Responses »

  1. Wow! What an Awesome article! Very well thought out. Presented in a very clear, academic format. We need you over here (Southern California)! So many Witnesses & so few Laborer’s for Christ to preach the Gospel to them. Keep up the great work for Our King and Savior – Jesus Christ. God Almighty says this, in specific reference to you, Jason:

    “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” – Romans 10:15

    Bless you Brother! Jeff

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    John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

    http://answering-islam.org/ The web site name says it all…Excellent! http://www.answeringmuslims.com ditto! http://christiandefense.org/ Dr. Edward Dalcour – The Best! – Oneness, JW, LDS, Catholics http://rethinkingadventism.com/ Great info on dealing with Seventh Day Adventists http://www.carm.org/ A very impressive counter-cult/apologetics Web site http://www.sacredgrovesonline.org/ Collection of stories of ex-Mormons who find Jesus http://www.towertotruth.net/ Info on JW’s and Mormons http://4jehovah.org/ Info on JW’s

    ============================================================

    >

    • Greetings in Jesus mighty name from Lincolnshire England! Thank you for your encouraging comments. My earnest desire is to share Jesus; “the way, the truth and the life” – all glory goes to him the “king of Kings” Amen! – We are praying for the brethren in Southern California! May the LORD richly bless your various ministries to all the lost! – “The harvest is great but the labourers few” – Keep pressing on with your eyes on eternity. God bless. Your brother in Christ Jason.

  2. Wow! Such a lot of information to digest, however It’s presented in a loving way to dismantle the arguments of the Watchtower doctrine on the resurrection, which I believed in for many years. Well done keep up the good work Jason.

    • Thank you for your kind comments, much appreciated. Will keep doing my best as the LORD directs. It is a pleasure to be able to help. God bless – Jason

  3. Hi, I would use logic, instead of Bible or at least use few Bible, that match logic. Logic is the most important, Bible which is God’s Words, so it must match Logic. So, it is perfect make sense and true. There can’t be no false or anything. Within God, there is no false, but the most least false can be within God that He cause to other people. When I say false, I mean something that is not true forever, also can’t be false forever. In other way, in parallel to true, is good. False in parallel which it is bad, bad can’t be true forever, and it can be most least bad which from God to people. Like death, which it is bad and cause suffering in emotion, or any kind. The important thing, you mention there is two eternal, which it is good and bad. Hell is bad, that provide suffering to people continuously and there is Heaven which it is good. So, you prefer your teaching is better than JW?? What I read and other will read your article about Hell will lead to JW because it is more high positive and most least negative. What you provide is on equal, which it is good and which it is bad. I don’t mean continue death forever as nothing will change, as that will be bad, but it is not as bad as eternally suffering.

    You mention Resurrection as wrong because it depends what is currently there from previous to current. For example, you mention Resurrection is a contradict to itself because to be non-exist that mean nothing is there, so if there is death to life, that mean it does exist, as you mention ‘disembodied spirits’. The problem with the whole thing is spirit and matter, spirit is eternal, and matter is not eternal, for more explain for matter is not eternal will be explain later. So, if there is death, so there are spirit to hold, and then transfer to new body, so new body that interlink to spirit that will cause that body to match spirit, so it is same as before. But that mean God’s memory of human is a spirit-holding center of anything if anything that actual die as non-exist. I don’t mean as now that He is looking at me, so there is no spirit of me in His mind, but after I die that mean there is a spirit of me in His mind. So, after death of anything, there is a spirit of anything in His mind to be restore or to remember. It is just memory that is all, just like we remember things that is non-exist, but no spirit of anything in our mind. In same way as currently there as it does exist that we see and we remember. Perhaps you never thought about that or you do thought. Any death of exist that used to be there is not a convert into any spirit of exist that used to be there. A tree or a dog that die, is not a convert into a spirit of tree or a dog that lie in memory of a person that is still there.

    It will imply it is ok to do bad because there must be Hell so there is suffering for the sinner, which it is more than least bad. It is more bad that human can do and easy for human to do, that mean it is easy for human to sin, so God do sin also. It will contradict the bible which He is perfect, so there is no bad in him. At least there is most least bad or most least allowable of badness that is necessary to accomplish what is good for all human. God is more good that us, so we can’t sin less than God or God that will sin a little bit like us. It will imply God don’t care about human and other human don’t care about other human, which it is easy for human to do because human at most that is closest which it is family, it is hard for human not to have dis-emotional connect to family because it is closest, but any farther which extent to friends, it gets less hard, as it get more farther to stranger. It is more easy to feel more emotional connect to family, than to strangers. God is connect to all, so He love all as He create all, unlike us which we are from our parents, which easy for us to response in love to our parents, and extent of our parents, which is grandparents, or our siblings which is our parents’ other children. The point what you create, it is easy to love; what you don’t create, it is hard to love. God love all, so He will do good to all. So, Hell is wrong because that would mean He sin or sin worse than us.

    Another thing, for Heaven, if there is a heaven, so there must be Hell, so earth as center, so good that is above us and bad that is below us. So, earth is like a proving ground, that is never permanent, or He changes his mind, or he makes it confusing, not make the most sense to us. Like you believe in earth, another paradise that is not same as WT, but an earth that will happen, but in different way than JW teach. So, there is two destiny or at least two destiny for spirit that is not connect to human, or few human to become spirits. And earth that is connect to human. Or you believe there is no earth at all, which no human at all? Heaven is forever, Hell is forever, earth is not?? It could be any earth, new earth in future, but still human forever. Ya believe in human forever?? Or just spirit forever? If you believe in spirit and human forever, then we are same as JW, but yours is more confusing as there could be better explain or there could be new logic that you haven’t thought of that make sense to you but not make sense to God.

    New logic that I mention which is anything that die will have a spirit in God’s mind. Anything that doesn’t exist, will exist in spirit, but not memory. Or He don’t care, or not care enough about human, but prefer spirit more than human. So, his heart is not as big as thought, but like us. So, that mean He is not perfect as always good and always make sense. That new logic is not total logical as forever because it is illogical forever, as mix of bad and good, which by itself bad. Also not perfect.

    All things must be from God’s logic and all righteous must be by God, because He knows all. We know by what we see and do. He knows by what he creates and He won’t contradict Himself because He knows all. But we don’t know all, so we can do wrong. If there is Heaven, so that mean there is no obey from human, that mean only by God’s death, which He doesn’t obey, so we don’t obey, yet He accept us. So, God didn’t die, but was sleeping. If He die, then how he was resurrect?? Your definition of resurrection is back from death, then your definition of death mean transfer into different realms (spirit), from earth realms (matter). So, we can do whatever we want and He accept us, so it is by our righteous we live in Heaven, by simple faith in Jesus. That mean there will be high good (that benefit to itself and to other people) and low bad from human (that benefit to itself and not benefit to other people). If human don’t know God that mean they will be Hell forever or transfer to Heaven because they don’t know God? I mean in the past, what happen to them?

    As a whole JW makes sense, in term of bad and good, and in logic process from bad to good, good to bad or combine. What you mention is not in logic process that make sense because it is combine of good and bad. So, he is not perfect, entirely Good, and lead to confusing to two paths and not one path as should be which He is one that is same as one path.

    If you know the bible well, and connect to all scriptures in Bible, you will see which make sense, JW does, that is because it is not bias, which it is not good to be bias, as we all are under God, so it must be by God’s bias, not your own. If you mention not by obedient, that mean we decide to enter not by our obey, because it is our faith in God. Just faith, as no obey, which we know something to be true. But to know something to be true, and we can do whatever we want, yet to be with God forever, that mean it is by our righteous, not His righteous. Except tiny His righteous that mean we know something to be true, which it is faith, but even it is not enough as Adam did prove it and Satan, and demon do prove it. They do know God, but will not be connect to God. It is our action, that we are connect to God. Our action, not as our action as whatever we want, but want He want to act.

    The scripture say ‘The wages sin pays is death’, so death is opposite of life. Your death mean in another life, which it is spirit, so transfer from matter to spirit. So, for person that is live and bad, what is the payment for that person, it is torture or suffering for that person. Life that is eternal, so suffering that is eternal also, which contradict to God as always good with most least bad. Most least bad which is death as non-exist. So, only Good remain forever, not accept both good and bad. Like sinner humans. As we are all sinners, so we have bad within us. Or show favors to spirit more than human, as all human will become spirit. To show favor is bad, and not equal to all. Scripture says ‘Do not withhold good from those to whom you should give it*+ If it is within your power* to help.+’, which mean He have power to give good to what is need. So, He have power to make human live forever and to spirits creatures too. So, if He prefers spirits more than human, as human remain for short time, but spirit forever, that is showing favor, which it will be bad to human. Of course, it might not be bad to human, because they will become spirit, that also mean they are not human anymore or they could become like Angel that can transfer here and to spirit, like before Noah’s Flood. But He also not favor to Angel that live with human, to have relationship or anything. So, He contradict Himself. But as human itself will change to spirit, so that is showing favor to spirit. If spirit doesn’t change to human or do change to human, which spirit have more power, so he is still spirit. Human are human itself with no spirit, but life within human.

    That is the logical process that I think about and show connect to what make sense.

    • Hello, many thanks for your kind reply.

      I must admit I found your reasoning difficult to follow. I would encourage you to read the scriptures that I quote in relation to the subjects discussed. All the information including links to other useful articles and footnotes on relevant books are supplied in the article.

      I am seeking the lost, not those who simply want to debate. Time is short. At the end of the day I cannot convince anyone of anything. All I can do is sow the seeds of truth, each individual must weigh the evidence against scripture. May the LORD open your eyes to his wonderful salvation in Jesus which is his free gift to all who believe; heaven, a glorified body and immortality await all his children.

      God bless – Jason

      • Mike:

        You say you don’t need watchtower, just JW. If no watchtower, how will JW be JW?? Without watchtower, they won’t be JW. JW was JW because of organization that provide Awake and Watchtower, (in time past, use different names). As a comparison, there is school, there is government, and there is family. For family, it is different from school and government. Because for family, it is biological connect like mother that create the son, so the son is under the mother. For the school, it is not biological connect because there is agreement in connect for class, teacher, and other things, from one person that in charge of school which is principle. So, do you think the school is wrong, as for government, there is president that lead the US. You think it is wrong?? The point there are organization so there is agreement for all involve, so no chaos. Because each person is independent person, so there need to have agreement between two independent person. So both are in balance. For a family, beside biological, there are emotional connect for both of them that cause them to love to each other. It is same with JW, with watch tower and awake that connect from GB. Beside emotional connect, there is school also, a parent could teach a child so a child could learn or it would be easier for a child to go to school. There are a lot of teachers that teach various subject to a child, but proper various subject that will benefit the child, and not damage to the child. So, the principle, head of school, (or it is higher than head of school, but for simple to understand, so will use this one) pick the teacher that teach agreement subject that benefit the child. Not disagreement subject that don’t benefit the child. There is a lot of teacher that could teach a child much faster and a lot within one day than a mother can teach alone. The point is this to make the mother, principle, and all teachers are in agreement that will benefit the child much faster than the mother alone. There is another benefit the child with another child, and all of them can be friends much faster than at home with mother alone. So, it is a school with group of children, so all will be friends. So, that is benefit of group, faster learning from teachers (instead of one, that is the mom, per day). So, organization is important. So, WT is important. I am using everyday comparison.

        The bible alone is good for each person, but it will cause problem in a easy way. For problem itself, it will cause that person to feel that bible is right, only part of it; another person to feel for other part of it. Both clash, so all not in agreement. So, it is not good to have bible alone. But if you are good with bible, and you will want to connect to people because it is good. So, it set up an organization that is good and easier. Because the bible itself represent that is good that is to share and make things easier. And if both person use the bible well, will that person resist another person that use the bible well. Two person do not know each other, will resist each other?? No, it will benefit each other faster, for idea and other stuff. And for third person that will learn the bible much easier than two persons learn from bible. So, two persons will provide Awake and Watchtower that connect to the bible. The third person can use the bible because Awake and Watchtower use the scripture that the third person can read in the bible to see that it is same thing. Not really different. A bible that is from the father, and the person that use the bible is a child that learn. In connect and bigger scale, GB is a child that learn from Jehovah, which from the bible, so it provide to smaller scale of child that is Congregation. To smaller scale, that is to Elder, and to us. The point we learn from GB. For each scale of children, the bigger scale of children have more work to learn information, to smaller scale of children, we have easier to learn info in faster way, that is the Awake and Watchtower. The point child and mother both are the same in learning process. A child (I am talking about a group, or a person that can be any age) can be either a mother, so it teaches, or a child so it learns. It is more easy to benefit from the group, because as a group, it is a child that learn as a collection from Jehovah. So, it is not individually, but as a collection. A mother as individual to a child, that is by biological connect; but by learning connect, a mother as a group, that are those teachers in school that teach a child (a person that learn). A child or children as student in school will learn a lot within one day. So, organization is important to learn fast and more and connect to people.

        A child that learn from father, so a child by itself is not bias because he follows the father, so he do everything the father does, so he is bias to the father. So, you could say he is bias to that father, instead to other father because that child is connect to one father, not other father. So, Jehovah is father of all, so GB is the child of Jehovah. See the connect for scale comparison. I am sure you agree that to be under God, is a benefit to all, right?? Plus as an organization it is easy to have more resource and that will lead to faster understanding, faster learning, faster connect. For example, a school have more resource because of more teachers, that lead to faster anything to a child at end of day of school.

        Of course to be bias absolutely, you would have to know the father very well, and feel more emotional connect to the father, so there is no independent on your part, which will contradict to the father’s will. But what you create that is new to the father, for example, like car, cell phone, or anything. For an comparison, a father that teach a child in early 1900, about to be good and other stuff. So, a child create a tv later in the road, years later, so the child’s first create is TV. So, as a child that bias to the father to be good, so the child will create what is good, like TV. So, TV is not a contradict base that father didn’t decide or give idea, or anything about a TV. It is the son alone that invent TV, but behind the TV is a benefit to all people. So, Awake and other is an invent from GB that benefit to all people, which is not an invent from GB because it is good. So, Jehovah invent good. So, what GB invent is a secondary-invent, not primary invent by itself as contradict to good.

        Side point, why it is hard to read when you say hard to read?? It is because the line is too many for per section?? Or the whole thing as post?? Or it is because not enough space between two lines, like in article have higher space in between??

        For you to mention, ‘Eph 4:14’ that imply confusing and other stuff. It may be confusing sometime, but as a whole it is not confusing because primary is not confusing, but secondary can be confuse. That is reason organization is important, so each person won’t get his or her own idea from bible, that clash to another person with bible. So, the third person as a child, will be confuse by two persons. So, it is not like GB, because it is one person, as a child that learn from Jehovah. If you look at it deeps, it is not confusing. So, that mean to trust the father. If a father did something wrong or say something wrong, so that mean a child should not love the father anymore? No, because it will be a mistake because primary the child trust no matter what, that doesn’t mean deception from the father to the child. GB is not a deception to JW. To do contradict what is good, and want to do bad. If it is seemingly deception from the father, so the child must think deep and/or trust the father is not totally wrong, but little wrong yes, but will not wrong the child, in meaning to hurt the child. In two ways, for the father and child, it could be as a group connect or as a biological connect.

  4. Why can’t I use G+ to share this (in my opinion) important information?

  5. Jason, you’ve provided another great article . Thanks .

    Mellow03 ,

    It’s very difficult to follow your comments and fully understand what you are saying . It will also help if you would reduce the size of your post . I did see one sentence that I will respond to :

    ” If you know the Bible well , and connect to all scriptures in Bible , you will see which makes sense , JW does , that is because it is not bias , it is not good to be bias …..”

    When we look at the track record of Watchtower leaders we see one thing emerge that is very clear , namely , the men back in Brooklyn N.Y. are not trustworthy guides in providing the correct interpretation of the scriptures .They’ve exhibited a pattern of giving Jw’s unstable doctrines ( Eph 4:14 ) Yet you as a Jw believe these men know the Bible well , that what they provide as guidance as prophets makes sense , and that they are not bias ? Sorry , but that is simply a wrong assessment of the Watchtower on your part .

    Please put down your watchtower publications and study the Bible ( one not printed by the watchtower society ) alone . Wonderful things can happen to you if will ask God for the strength to do this every day . Jw’s simply don’t need the watchtower .
    Take care .

    • It is same as above, but it is for you, but not at another post under different person that reply it. Or it will show right chronological process, not new date in older post with old date in newer post. But in order.

      Mike:

      You say you don’t need watchtower, just JW. If no watchtower, how will JW be JW?? Without watchtower, they won’t be JW. JW was JW because of organization that provide Awake and Watchtower, (in time past, use different names). As a comparison, there is school, there is government, and there is family. For family, it is different from school and government. Because for family, it is biological connect like mother that create the son, so the son is under the mother. For the school, it is not biological connect because there is agreement in connect for class, teacher, and other things, from one person that in charge of school which is principle. So, do you think the school is wrong, as for government, there is president that lead the US. You think it is wrong?? The point there are organization so there is agreement for all involve, so no chaos. Because each person is independent person, so there need to have agreement between two independent person. So both are in balance. For a family, beside biological, there are emotional connect for both of them that cause them to love to each other. It is same with JW, with watch tower and awake that connect from GB. Beside emotional connect, there is school also, a parent could teach a child so a child could learn or it would be easier for a child to go to school. There are a lot of teachers that teach various subject to a child, but proper various subject that will benefit the child, and not damage to the child. So, the principle, head of school, (or it is higher than head of school, but for simple to understand, so will use this one) pick the teacher that teach agreement subject that benefit the child. Not disagreement subject that don’t benefit the child. There is a lot of teacher that could teach a child much faster and a lot within one day than a mother can teach alone. The point is this to make the mother, principle, and all teachers are in agreement that will benefit the child much faster than the mother alone. There is another benefit the child with another child, and all of them can be friends much faster than at home with mother alone. So, it is a school with group of children, so all will be friends. So, that is benefit of group, faster learning from teachers (instead of one, that is the mom, per day). So, organization is important. So, WT is important. I am using everyday comparison.

      The bible alone is good for each person, but it will cause problem in a easy way. For problem itself, it will cause that person to feel that bible is right, only part of it; another person to feel for other part of it. Both clash, so all not in agreement. So, it is not good to have bible alone. But if you are good with bible, and you will want to connect to people because it is good. So, it set up an organization that is good and easier. Because the bible itself represent that is good that is to share and make things easier. And if both person use the bible well, will that person resist another person that use the bible well. Two person do not know each other, will resist each other?? No, it will benefit each other faster, for idea and other stuff. And for third person that will learn the bible much easier than two persons learn from bible. So, two persons will provide Awake and Watchtower that connect to the bible. The third person can use the bible because Awake and Watchtower use the scripture that the third person can read in the bible to see that it is same thing. Not really different. A bible that is from the father, and the person that use the bible is a child that learn. In connect and bigger scale, GB is a child that learn from Jehovah, which from the bible, so it provide to smaller scale of child that is Congregation. To smaller scale, that is to Elder, and to us. The point we learn from GB. For each scale of children, the bigger scale of children have more work to learn information, to smaller scale of children, we have easier to learn info in faster way, that is the Awake and Watchtower. The point child and mother both are the same in learning process. A child (I am talking about a group, or a person that can be any age) can be either a mother, so it teaches, or a child so it learns. It is more easy to benefit from the group, because as a group, it is a child that learn as a collection from Jehovah. So, it is not individually, but as a collection. A mother as individual to a child, that is by biological connect; but by learning connect, a mother as a group, that are those teachers in school that teach a child (a person that learn). A child or children as student in school will learn a lot within one day. So, organization is important to learn fast and more and connect to people.

      A child that learn from father, so a child by itself is not bias because he follows the father, so he do everything the father does, so he is bias to the father. So, you could say he is bias to that father, instead to other father because that child is connect to one father, not other father. So, Jehovah is father of all, so GB is the child of Jehovah. See the connect for scale comparison. I am sure you agree that to be under God, is a benefit to all, right?? Plus as an organization it is easy to have more resource and that will lead to faster understanding, faster learning, faster connect. For example, a school have more resource because of more teachers, that lead to faster anything to a child at end of day of school.

      Of course to be bias absolutely, you would have to know the father very well, and feel more emotional connect to the father, so there is no independent on your part, which will contradict to the father’s will. But what you create that is new to the father, for example, like car, cell phone, or anything. For an comparison, a father that teach a child in early 1900, about to be good and other stuff. So, a child create a tv later in the road, years later, so the child’s first create is TV. So, as a child that bias to the father to be good, so the child will create what is good, like TV. So, TV is not a contradict base that father didn’t decide or give idea, or anything about a TV. It is the son alone that invent TV, but behind the TV is a benefit to all people. So, Awake and other is an invent from GB that benefit to all people, which is not an invent from GB because it is good. So, Jehovah invent good. So, what GB invent is a secondary-invent, not primary invent by itself as contradict to good.

      Side point, why it is hard to read when you say hard to read?? It is because the line is too many for per section?? Or the whole thing as post?? Or it is because not enough space between two lines, like in article have higher space in between??

      For you to mention, ‘Eph 4:14’ that imply confusing and other stuff. It may be confusing sometime, but as a whole it is not confusing because primary is not confusing, but secondary can be confuse. That is reason organization is important, so each person won’t get his or her own idea from bible, that clash to another person with bible. So, the third person as a child, will be confuse by two persons. So, it is not like GB, because it is one person, as a child that learn from Jehovah. If you look at it deeps, it is not confusing. So, that mean to trust the father. If a father did something wrong or say something wrong, so that mean a child should not love the father anymore? No, because it will be a mistake because primary the child trust no matter what, that doesn’t mean deception from the father to the child. GB is not a deception to JW. To do contradict what is good, and want to do bad. If it is seemingly deception from the father, so the child must think deep and/or trust the father is not totally wrong, but little wrong yes, but will not wrong the child, in meaning to hurt the child. In two ways, for the father and child, it could be as a group connect or as a biological connect.

  6. Mellow03,

    I’m sorry but it’s hard for me to track with you given the way you write your comments . Let me respond to two of your assertions :

    you said , ” You say you don’t need the watchtower, just Jw . If no w.t. , how will Jw be Jw? Without w.t. they won’t be Jw . Jw was Jw because of organization that provide Awake and Watchtower …”

    Mellow, truth be known you can be a faithful witness of Jehovah , especially a Christian witness of Jesus , without the w.t. because the Bible contains the truth about how to receive a right relationship with God and gain His approval for everlasting life . What the w.t does is give you a faulty interpretation of the holy scriptures thereby detouring you from the truth and into embracing man made teachings created by a few men back in Brooklyn N.Y. A Jw “book study ” is a clever way for a person to be misled because they think they are allowing the Bible to speak for itself when in fact the w.t. book is telling them what the Bible verses means.

    You said , ” So two persons will provide Awake and Watchtower that connect to the Bible ….”

    But W.t. publications don’t connect to the Bible , in fact they are a poor resource to use in learning about the Bible . The teaching track record of w.t. publications since 1879 reveals a
    pattern , and it is one of being inconsistent , wishy washy in giving the correct meaning of the scriptures . Jw’s have truly been tossed to and fro — Eph 4:14 and that’s not a good sign . I personally cannot trust the watchtower prophet — Matt 24:11 , neither should you .

    The Watchtower prophet has claimed to reveal ” God’s truth ” but that is not true as a examination of w.t. publications clearly shows . A few examples :

    – in the 1970’s Jw’s were fearful of having organ transplants because the w.t. advised them it was not God’s will . Some jw’s suffered physically as a result .
    – Watchtower once taught that Jesus had returned in 1874 , and that this was “Bible based “.
    – Watchtower taught the Faithful and Wise Servant (slave) was a class , then this was changed to be a person , then a few years later it was changed back to be a class !

    Mellow, bottom line here is this : YOU do not need the w.t. to teach you what the Bible says , it simply can’t be trusted to do so . Please put aside the w.t. and study the Bible without it ,ask God to reveal truths to you in His Word .
    Thanks .

    • Ya haven’t mention why it is hard to read ‘Side point, why it is hard to read when you say hard to read?? It is because the line is too many for per section?? Or the whole thing as post?? Or it is because not enough space between two lines, like in article have higher space in between??’ I notice in compare to my reply message and post message. So post message have larger space between lines. So, it is not larger space between lines, so what is the answer??

      Ok, so you talk about negative stuff from JW, or switch from back and forth. That result negative to JW, then change, it is ok to use it. Because without it, they did died base what the watchtower told them, then later, they can use it and they will not die. So, it proves that you don’t see the connect or do see the connect, but make it very simple as it is just different base in words of scripture that don’t match real world situation. The bible say ‘abstain from blood’ (not have any blood that will enter you) to not equal to real world because in the mouth or in the vein or any reason that is connect to blood is wrong. But the blood represent blood that is same in real life situation and in the bible, so it is easy to understand don’t take any blood in your body.

      They have good reason for not to use transplant organs because of the blood as require from God, then it changes to it is your decision. Because they know more than before. Because they do die, do not mean they are wrong like you are thinking or may thinking. They are bad and want to hurt us. Because not enough information from God to WT. God do not give all information to save your life and to do the right thing all the time, so, instead there are information that you have to analyze deep and see the info that match the situation, the info is there. You just have to expand even more.

      Remember God don’t give you all the info, but enough info about good and bad. So human can figure it out. Even there is bad, like death, that doesn’t mean it is bad like they (GB) want to kill us.

      Even a mom can hurt a child, that doesn’t mean mom want to hurt the child because not enough info. Do you assume everything must be perfect with no pain from the bible?? If that is so, there will be no suffering and God can tell them, God do tell them to prevent suffering, but it is on human’s part to prevent suffering because we have free will and there is enough info from God to success in life.

      Ya didn’t mention the important part from previous post to this post about ‘not needing WT’, it seems ya didn’t read or did read but forgot to mention about it in post, or whatever. Ya can read it slowly and it is easy to explain to you?? If it is not easy to explain to you, why it is hard?? I will repeat the post here or summary of post here. But, it will be the same thing.

      As for pain from GB to JW, it is already mention here. As for non-pain, but different path that will lead to confuse, like ‘Watchtower taught the Faithful and Wise Servant (slave) was a class , then this was changed to be a person , then a few years later it was changed back to be a class !’. A person don’t have to be an individual person. It is possible, so a person and a slave are the same thing, but it was better to say class. The point a person can be a group as a person. The point it is not big wrong because it makes sense either way, but not big wrong as you mention Jesus return to 1874, that will be big wrong. But that wrong is not primary wrong, but secondary wrong because they are always primary right, but not primary wrong like to tell them to hurt people or anything. That will be primary wrong like GB are against to God. So, if you trust GB not to be primary wrong, then you can trust them to be right as secondary because they want to be primary right, but if they are secondary wrong, it is not their fault because there is not enough info or they assume because various situation but they will right it so it will get better.

      Surely they will not mistake for bad and good?? That hurt is ok and not to hurt is ok?? That will mean GB are confusing, it is ok to hurt or not?? Any kind of hurt can be from path that GB will lead them to deadly path which to death. GB don’t want the result of pain to JW from GB, so they will do their best they can do to lead to right path that lead to life.

      What you mention about don’t need WT, just bible, but I explain above ‘Because each person is an independent person, so there need to have agreement between two independent person. So both are in balance.’ So there is no negativity and positive from one person that clash another person that is negativity and positive. A person can desire negative to another person, that will be bad or maybe there is no negativity, but unknowingly there are no emotional connect between two persons, so there will be negativity, not because they have negativity on their part, but not enough positive so they will feel connect to that person. A mother is more connect to the child, than a mother that is connect to a stranger. So, it is more likely a mother will hurt a stranger than a child. So, it is not fair. WT is an organization that represent friendship to all people. A mother that is not connect to a stranger, that mean a mother and a stranger are not friend and don’t want to be. A mother want to be connect to a child. So, I represent, a mother that is GB, a child that is JW or to be potential JW, a stranger that is non-JW.

      Do you think it is logical with the bible that you don’t need people to be connect?? So they will not set up an organization to make it easier?? Like Israel is an organization, that is not need but it is there because it is a label that represent a group, individual, and anything. So there is no confuse, so label is important, not because visually, but also because of action of people that do. Black person is visually back, so not need a label to be black, but call as it is because it becomes a label that is called black. So, by certain action from people, is an organization that is need for all individuals that are in agreement. An US government, and Russian government is a label that is easy understood because of location organization or people that is born from.

      Everything is by label, so there will automatically be an organization or anything so there is a different to see and do.

      If you know the label well and match everything in the bible, you will see the comparison that is right because it make sense. For positive and negative. Another Christian that support government fully is wrong because government make the decision that Christian should follow, it is wrong because it is worship to government, absolutely obey to government, so It is not good to support fully, only what is good to you and to other people, you can support, but not in everything. That what it means government hurt people, or will hurt them because government are the leader, not God. Government don’t know everything that will be always right all the time, just temporary right. They will be right first because of resource they have, but that don’t mean anything. GB is a government that will go to Heaven to rule over earth, so Government is from Heaven, not from human. If you agree government is an organization that is right, then GB is right also. You are right you don’t need GB to label yourself JW because you can know the name of God and see the word Witness in Bible or match the meaning of the word witness. So, JW fit well, but God love all, so logically person that love other person will draw each other and become a group of two persons, and bigger group. Nothing is wrong with an organization.

      Organization produce faster result, give idea to better result because of two ideas or more, faster anything than the individual can do alone with no connect to other person.

      You can read carefully above, in two post or so about illogical and other stuff, it have good point to your answer.

      Anything that is not mention above post or this post that don’t match your answer to ‘not need WT’, tell me, but read carefully and see the answer above because as I mention it have good point to your answer, if there is none that match to your answer, tell me.

      Don’t think negativity because there is negativity, but instead look for positive. Trust them to do positive to us, and they will change negativity to positive. As it gets better. God is positive to all, so there will be resurrection of the dead. He doesn’t kill all GB because GB lead to wrong path in pain to JW like transport organs or date or certain words from the bible to other JW that is seems as right, but it is wrong. But Jehovah trust GB, just as you might or do trust God even there is suffering in world but you trust Him. It is not fair to say of GB that they are bad, that would mean Jehovah is bad to us because there is suffering here in world. That is shallow answer, but not deep answer, if you think deep as there is enough shallow answer as questions in bible to see the connect to get deep answer to your deep question that God is good.

      As I say above if you know the bible well, and connect each scripture, you will know what is wrong and what is right.

  7. Mellow,

    Your last post did read easier because you spaced it into paragraphs . Good job .
    Let me reply to some of the things you said :

    You seem to not grasp the seriousness of the W.T’s erroneous teachings . I mentioned how Jw’s were told to not consider having an organ transplant in the 1970’s because they were scared into believing it was against Jehovah’s will . At one point the Gov . Body likened transplants to cannibalism ! People were more than hurt by this erroneous policy , some went without cornea transplants and even much more life threatening ailments . This was’nt the first time the Gov Body created a man made law that hurt people , in the 1930’s Jw’s were counseled against having vaccinations . Now the Bible never taught this , but Jw’s do not follow the Bible , they follow the Gov. Body’s man made laws thinking they are Jehovah’s laws and are thus led into serious error . Gal 1:8 .

    Now , make no mistake here . I’m not saying that the Gov.Body deliberately wants to hurt their followers . But when religious leaders like them are self deluded into thinking God has spoke to them to introduce a teaching then that can cause their followers to be misled and even physically hurt .

    You also failed to realize the seriousness of following false prophets because you dismissed the Gov.Body’s false prophecy of 1874 as being only a ” secondary wrong ” not a ” primary wrong” .
    That type of excuse is silly and reveals how Jw’s have been hooked into following a false prophet which is your Gov. Body .
    The Bible is clear that if a prophet predicts something to happen on a certain date , and if it does’nt come to pass then that prophet is a false prophet — read Deut 18:2-22 . false prophets can use Jehovah’s name to prove to people they should follow them — see Jer 23 verses 16, 21, 25 . Don’t be fooled .

    Mellow, the Gov.Body is a proven false prophet . You need to dismiss them from your life and cling to the Bible alone to find your spiritual food . What they’ve taught Jw’s has been contaminated meat , not reliable truth from God’s word .

    I think that this will be my last response to you . I can only hope and pray that you read the Bible without the W.T. telling you what it says . That’s the key to your spiritual safety .
    God wants you to come to have a right relationship with Him , and that starts by complying with His arrangement as seen in Matt 11:28 . Come directly to Jesus and ask him for pardon of your sins ,He will abundantly forgive . You will then experience a personal relationship and intimate fellowship with Jesus and the Father will accept you and you will then be in the truth — see Jn 14:6 ; 1Cor 1:9

    Take care

    • Hi, ok, perhaps or not this will be last response to you also.

      First of all, you say JW are wrong because of wrong date that lead them to be false prophet. I read about prophet, a prophet do not mean just a date, but a message or actions in words from God. So, JW that preach are prophet because of message from God to people. So, they are true prophet, but not false as desire to lead them always and continue no matter what, even there is evidence that they will find, they choose to resist the evidence, or knowingly it is wrong that lead to false path, yet they still use wrote date, wrong message, wrong anything, that mean they are false prophet.

      It is more than future date, but also it is primary a message or action which can be convert from a message to an action. For example, I say to you go to store, that is my message to you, so your action is go to store, so you are prophet of me.

      Ya didn’t contradict my good point with your answer, but ignore my point and put your answer to my whole message, but not see part of message that make good point to your answer. Maybe you did because you say ‘That type of excuse is silly’. So, in one way you may be right, but you miss the point that I put also, and will again, ‘Remember God don’t give you all the info, but enough info about good and bad. So human can figure it out. Even there is bad, like death, that doesn’t mean it is bad like they (GB) want to kill us.’ and an extra that it is not likely they will keep the bad date, bad message, even they know there is better message that they found, but they chose to ignore and prefer to keep the wrong kind or even it is more obvious like the bad date, message, or anything that will definite lead or possible lead to hurtful path, they will change accordingly to new info that they will find and lead to right path.

      That is leader’s responsibility and for our responsibility is to trust GB, even they might be wrong, but trust them will guide us to right way, but never will GB will hurt us, even GB know and we know to hurt is wrong, unlike people that are not under GB, but in world that want to hurt people, even they know it is wrong but they want to hurt them.

      I am sure you understand my point above, but the problem is not about good point that I make, but you don’t believe JW at all, but you believe in different way, like ‘Trinity?’, if not what you believe. So, you automatically react that they are wrong because they resist Trinity?? Not analyze it?? It is good to analyze right and wrong because human with their free will can fool people or bless people. To prevent from being fool is to know them, or know their action or their agenda to you or anything. Knowledge is important, so good to know the Bible well, that mean to know God. Is God bad, good, or both?? Or He is primary good, but secondary bad as it is bad in temporary way that is short in any length of time or suffering. Even in Hell for one day is bad and worse than human can do, well human can cause suffer to other human for one day with good technology they have to cause them to scream agony continue for 24 hours. Unexpected, that is what I say in dictionary for agony that link to Hell. I look at agony after I first type agony, so it is very bad as extreme mental or physical pain.

      People that directly hurt people that the first people know will hurt them are not good; People that fool them to think it is good, but it is really hurting them; both are not good. People that assume that they are right, but they are wrong because they are being from previous people, which previous people are not here anymore, but mislead people that fool future people.

      So, ya think GB are mislead and fool people, which you say ‘Gov.Body deliberately wants to hurt their followers’ but ‘religious leaders like them are self deluded into thinking God has spoke to them to introduce a teaching then that can cause their followers to be misled and even physically hurt’ which it is same as the word I put above ‘mislead’.

      If you follow the Bible completely, which you don’t because I make good point about the abstain the blood that is why they don’t have transport organ in their body. Or maybe it is because they will die that you think they are wrong because of death?? Death is not absolutely because God is powerful enough to override death and can restore the person and cause that person to live longer.

      The problem is why do you think GB want to mislead them, yet they don’t want to hurt them, but you think they will get hurt? How would they get hurt if GB don’t want to hurt them? Can you answer it??

      It is same as people that eat GMO food and it hurts them, and GMO people know it hurt them, so GMO are not being mislead, but are misleading people. That mean GMO people are worse than GB and you. What people that get hurt from GMO do, they invent new food or find new food, not keep under same people. It is same with you, to change religious so you will not get hurt. That hurt that are under GMO and religious can be the same because people will think it is not from GMO, but natural process to death, early or whenever or to old age, but with suffer, they might not think GMO, so no blame to GMO people, even GMO people know they are hurting them. Surely they will know because of answer that they can see from death, heart attack or anything. Even they can see, GMO might not believe they hurt them. It can either GMO people know or don’t know. There could be two kind of GMO people that know or don’t know. GMO people that know analyze deep and see the connect that make sense, and change to make it better or worse they know but don’t care and want to hurt them.

      It is same with religious that connect to GMO people. Important thing is to analyze from the bible and see the answer. God don’t give you all the answer to know what is true or not. To prevent from being mislead is to analyze deep. If you believe in Hell which it will hurt people, so need to have emotional connect to people to feel hurt for them because you will get hurt if you go to Hell, that mean God don’t care about them?? That will imply God is mean. So, emotional connect to people help to analyze or good logical process will help you to analyze. That would mean God have lower emotional connect and higher emotional connect or only lower emotional connect or playing with us, who know. The point what is good and what is bad, must be separate to show what is good. Not have bad remaining.

      Going to heaven imply there is Hell or other imply you might or people think of. What to imply will lead to path that make sense to them, but not make sense from God’s POV. Do go to Hell make sense from God POV? That would mean he is mean or don’t have enough power to restore the people or put in new body on earth or anything. What to imply can be right or wrong. So, be careful what to imply.

      How would GB hurt them?? If they don’t know GB do hurt them, then I can tell them and they can change their way so it will not hurt them. That what does GB do, because they find more info that are wrong and will hurt them, and get better info, and right info. To prevent suffering and other stuff. That what they do, they do get better and remove wrong info. Because the answer are enough for them to find new answer. Or get an idea.

      The problem if you believe strongly in Trinity, then you can analyze deep to understand and see ‘trinity’ don’t make sense because it will lead to different path, not one path that is good. If there are two paths, then it is good and bad. Good as one word, so bad as one word, so is the path is same as one word.

      You don’t believe in knowledge, just faith that is all. ‘Come directly to Jesus and ask him for pardon of your sins, He will abundantly forgive . You will then experience a personal relationship and intimate fellowship with Jesus and the Father will accept you and you will then be in the truth’. Just forgiveness because I believe that is all?? That will lead to two path, that we can do whatever we want and we believe simple in Jesus and will be save, that would mean God’s heart is bigger and accept anything and He will contradict Himself because allow bad to mix with good. That is what anything mean, not anything in balance way. To be anything that is as long as it is good. There is a limit in anything. Anything that is in balance way are right from GOD’s POV that align to human’s POV. Because human can do anything out of God or within God, so it will be in balance that match God.

      That mean to obey. GB teach obey. To obey, you have to know what to obey. What you teach if you believe that we don’t have to obey that mean you don’t have to know anything, just be happy you are alive. That would contradict to God because we die that mean we must obey or die. Or that God change and accept Sin. Those are not simple knowledge from mere Bible or mere words from people, but analyze deep to get new knowledge or new words that make sense in connect to simple knowledge of the bible because there is enough answer, to gain new answer and make it better and smarter or anything that get better.

      Ya can look carefully at the post above about logical and illogical to see the point.

      Read carefully and tell me what is that is above that is not good point to your answer?? When you answer back ‘You also failed to realize the seriousness of following false prophets because you dismissed the Gov.Body’s false prophecy of 1874 as being only a ” secondary wrong ” not a ” primary wrong” .’. There is already good point that match your answer. So, what I copy and paste is my good point like I say secondary wrong and not a primary wrong, so there is answer point I explain before this post. Perhaps you understand the point and can see what I say make sense, by not to analyze and see what I say is right, not wrong because there are two path that either I am right or I am wrong. Either GB are wrong because they are wrong that mean will lead people to be wrong. That what not GB does, GB changes accordingly to be right because of trust from God and people. You say they change, they do change in good way, not bad way.

      For example, trinity was change from bad to worse because there was no trinity in past. So more confuse to people because there are different implies about trinity will lead in people’s mind. Ya can check history and analyze trinity because concept and meaning of trinity is not clearly in bible, but clearly from Creed that man put down. If there is trinity, then at best God don’t have enough power (To restore the person here on earth or put new spirit in new body after he create again) or knowledge ( that he make a mistake or unexpected situation that cause confuse in people which imply not enough knowledge) after Man’s sin that will lead to Trinity or at worst, He want to confuse people. Those are from logical process that make sense.

      But instead you stick to think GB are wrong, if they are wrong, then accordingly to be entirely wrong as a whole GB must want to hurt people or support people that will hurt them or support people that don’t have all the knowledge of right and wrong and will hurt them like government, that mean GB worship government, not God. So government are God. That would be wrong because government hurt them by they want to hurt them or not enough knowledge that will lead them to hurt, so God is better choice as no bad remaining, and feel safer. God that know everything and have all power to match knowledge. He trusts GB because humans have potential to do what is right because of logical process that tell them what is right or emotional connect so they feel it is right because no hurting or anything or both.

      The bible do help human to be right, if exactly word for right is not forthcoming, then you can analyze deep to get right answer. Smoking is not in bible, but smoking is wrong as in bible because to analyze deep it says clean body, remove suffer, and good. Smoking don’t benefit people, it suffers to people.

      When other religious tell people go to war and trust government absolutely, it is more easy to see that it is wrong because human can be wrong and human that kill other human is wrong, so they can resist religious and tell them they are wrong because they don’t want to hurt people, so find new religious that won’t hurt people because they are good at figure it out the logical connect because to hurt mean it is bad as one path or to not to hurt mean it is good as one path, Both must be separate.

      If religious tell people to obey government absolutely, then they are false prophet because it contradicts the bible. Only obey what is right, not what is wrong.

      If Trinity as true, it will imply any good and any bad to people. Like gay and lesbian, and whatever they think will be true. They will be like gods, not under True God for obey, but obey themselves or obey certain person.

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