Another Blog from UK Partnerships for Christ (

Do people get a second chance?

Can people be saved beyond death? What does the Bible teach?

Last week I saw two Jehovah’s Witnesses standing by their magazine cart. I decided to approach them and ask them a question. The question was ‘I am not a Jehovah’s Witness, so what will happen to me when I die?’

Mag cart


The answer I received was this: ‘You will cease to exist’. One of the ladies then opened her Bible and asked me to read this verse:

“The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten… Ecclesiastes 9:5 (NWT)

I already knew how they would answer my question and the Bible verse they would take me to; after all Jehovah’s Witnesses will always respond the way they are programmed to respond.

I could have discussed with them the following points:

i) The writer of Ecclesiastes is talking about life (and death) from the viewpoint of the living. Ecclesiastes 1:9 (NWT) ‘What has been is what will be, And what has been done will be done again; There is nothing new under the sun’. The writer uses the term ‘under the sun’ more than 20 times, clearly showing that he is contemplating and discussing the life he sees around him.

The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all…’(Ecc.9:5). The dead know nothing at all because their life on earth has come to an end. They no longer have any part to play in anything that happens ‘under the sun’.

ii) ‘nor do they have any more reward’… (Ecc.9:5)

Do the dead have any more reward? Well not in this life ‘under the sun’, says the writer of Ecclesiastes, but there are rewards for the dead in the life to come. Jesus said:

“Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to repay each one according to his work” (Revelation 22:12 NWT)

So my Jehovah’s Witness friend, is Ecclesiastes 9:5 teaching that the dead cease to exist – forever – and have no further reward – forever – or that the dead cease to exist (in this life) but can have some reward in the future life?

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that when a person dies they cease to exist, but they remain stored in Jehovah’s memory, and at some point in the future He will resurrect (more accurately ‘re-create’) them to a paradise earth where they will be given a second chance.

Now let’s return to my discussion with the ladies at the cart.

I asked the ladies if I cease to exist when I die, is that it for me? Their answer was if I die before Armageddon, I will be raised and given a second chance. If I die at Armageddon (which of course is coming soon to a town near you) I will be annihilated and that is game over for me.

I then repeated back to the ladies what they had said to confirm I had heard it right (it seems I had) and then asked a further question. ‘Are you then saying that a person can live as they feel in this life and, as long as they die before Armageddon, they will be given a second chance to accept Jehovah after death?’

Their answer was ‘Yes’, followed by ‘No’, followed by ‘kind of’, followed by ‘only Jehovah knows the hearts of men and women’.

It seemed to me, and hopefully to them, that the message they preach is indeed ‘party on… for you will get a second chance’. They were quick to point out that those who have never heard the gospel, will surely be given a second chance. But I wasn’t asking about them I was asking about me.

I asked them who, if anyone, would not receive a second chance? They replied it was up to Jehovah but when pressed, they offered some thoughts. Two categories emerged. Those who die at Armageddon and those who knew something of the truth but then rejected it.

I suggested to the ladies, in light of all they said, that their offer of a free home Bible study was actually damaging, not helping people to be saved. If there is a chance that learning something of the Watchtower gospel and then rejecting it, could lead to no second chance beyond death; isn’t it better to not tell people anything, let them live as they please and then they will get a second chance when Jehovah re-creates them on a paradise earth?

At this point the two Jehovah’s Witness ladies agreed, packed up their trolley and went for a Costa Coffee (other Coffee brands are available), at least that’s how I saw it happening in my head! Of course they didn’t, they just disagreed once again saying , it is up to Jehovah who will be given a second chance.

This whole episode shows that Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t really able to process what they are taught. They are unable to connect the dots or see the obvious. This is true of anyone who has undergone any kind of ‘cult’ programming. Their faculties to reason becomes impaired as they just regurgitate that which they have been taught.

So, does the Bible really teach a Gospel of the Second Chance?

20110327_is-there-a-second-chance-for-salvation-after-death_poster_img (2)


Many people like to believe that they will have a second chance to accept God after death. They reason that if God is all loving, surely he will forgive them and allow them into heaven. As appealing as this may be, it is not what the Bible teaches.



Hebrews 9:27 says: ‘And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment…’ This, and other verses, teach that each person’s eternal destiny, either reward or condemnation, will be based on what was done in this life                  (Matt.7:21–23;13:36–43; John5:28–29).

Jesus also taught that the future for all is set at death. Jesus shared the story of Lazarus, who was eternally in paradise, and the rich man, who was eternally in torment (Luke16:19–31). Finally, the description of the great white throne judgment in Revelation 20:11–15 categorically shows that our eternal destiny is based on our earthly life. In these and other passages, physical death marks the boundary of human opportunity to be saved.


Don’t listen to any group who promise the opportunity of salvation post mortem. Today is the day of salvation. Choose to follow Jesus NOW.


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Categorised in: Reaching Jehovah's Witnesses, Salvation, UK Partnerships for Christ

14 Responses »

  1. Don’t waste our time. We have Jesus, the son of God. Go do something useful.

    • Douglas thanks for your comment. I am more than happy to discuss the Biblical Jesus with you.

      • If Jesus is the Second Person of the Godhead, why did he not explain that? Indeed it is extremely easy to proclaim ”the other” as members of a cult when there is a theological disagreement. I am sure the Catholic Church, the Largest Christian Religion to this day, regards Protestants as members of a ”cult” and ”hell-bound” I am sure you would vehemently disagree with that designation and quote scripture to maintain why ONLY YOU ARE RIGHT. And we can expect a Catholic Priest to denounce YOUR INTERPRETATION AS ENTIRELY FALSE. And so the claims/counter claims would continue, till no end, as has been the case for thousands of years since 1st Century Palestine. I think there 100,000 Christian denominations to this day! Expanding by the day! Yeah but they are all wrong, some greatly and others slightly, only Pastor Tony Brown is correct! Is that not convenient?

        The Ebonites, were heretical according to you, correct? Well obviously! Since Pastor Brown, living 2000 years later, in England, clearly knows more about Christ, than those who were there at the time in the same place speaking the same language! Why? ”Holy Spirt” Yeah the same Holy Spirit which inspired the Inquisition, Crusades and the burning of heretics at the stake for the ”Prince of Peace”.What about the Nazoreans? Heretics! Modalists? Heretics! Nestorians? Heretics! Sabellenists? Heretics!! And on and on! Listen, you know surveys have shown that THE VAST MAJORITY OF TRINITARIANS ARE HERETICS! How so? And why? Because,as Dr James White, explains, in his book the Forgotten Trinity, that most Trinitarians are simply believers in a doctrine of the ”trinity” which has long been regarded as ”heretical”. Most in my experiences, are Tritheists. In other words ”Polytheists” or ”Pagans”. This doctrine is simply confusing and self-contradictory as well as non-biblical.

        Finitude and Infinitude CANNOT EXIST SIMULTANEOUSLY AT THE SAME TIME. This is a Self-Contradiction. Mutually exclusive propositions. You are Either God or Man not completely both.

        This Doctrine is, confusing. Why don’t you go and do an experiment? See how many people in your own town or church really understand this doctrine. Ask them for some analogies, and you will know if they are heretics or not. You can collect some firewood and burn them at the stake and blame it on the Holy Spirit.

        The Doctrine does not exist AT ALL IN THE OT. Dr William Craig lane admitted this in a discussion with Rabbi Tovia Singer. But he claimed it is revealed in the NT. It is not.
        What is revealed is that Jesus never taught the Doctrine. He did teach the Unitarian Creed of the Jewish People.

        I repeat: Jesus never claimed to be the Second Person of the Trinity.

        Question: Why the hell not?

        Judaism always was, and is, absolutely Unitarian. In the 1st Century Palestine, the Jewish faith, as always, was Unitarian; they regarded only the Father as God.

        Encyclopedia Americana:

        “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”-(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.

        This fact is acknowledged by Evangelical Trinitarian Scholars themselves. When Jesus was preaching, he never taught the Trinity nor claimed to be the 2nd Person of the Triune Godhead.

        This is a historical fact. In the Gospel of Mark, the most historically accurate and the earliest source (amongst the Gospels) Jesus proclaimed Unitarian Monotheism as the Greatest Commandment in Mark 12: 28-32 .

        In Mark 12: 29 , Proto Q Source, Jesus recited the Shema Yisrael “Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is Lord alone!” In a Unitarian Society 1st Century Palestine, Jesus recited the Shema to a Jewish Rabbi as the Greatest Commandment, and they mutually came to an agreement, and we are supposed to think that Jesus was affirming the Trinity? Are you having a laugh?? Jesus could have said: ”Hear O Israel! The Lord our God is One Being and Three Persons” but he did not do that! Instead, he recited the Creed of Israel, which always meant the Worship of God, the Father alone, to a Rabbi, without clarifying the Trinity, and they both came to an agreement! This obviously meant that Jesus affirmed Unitarian Monotheism, by default.


        1) Jesus was Preaching in a Unitarian Society

        2) Jesus never Preached the Trinity

        3) Jesus Preached the Shema (always understood as Unitarian) without 3 in 1 Nonsense

        4) Rabbi agrees on the concept of God, as always understood, with Jesus

        Conclusion: Jesus was a Unitarian.

        Professor James Dunn of Durham university, the leading New Testament scholar today in Britain writes

        ‘there was NO REAL EVIDENCE in the earliest Jesus tradition of what could fairly be called a consciousness of divinity’

        Christology in the Making, 2003, p. 60.

        It is quite clear that Jesus never regarded himself as God in any shape or form, nor preached a concept of God remotely Trinitarian. Therefore, the Trinity is a human invention. Not a divine revelation.

        This fact is further supported by the most eminent theologian and New Testament scholar Father Raymond Brown, as he writes: “The slow development of the usage of the title “God” for Jesus requires explanation. Not only is there the factor that Jesus is not called God in the earlier strata of NT material; but also there are passages, cited under A above, that by implication reserve the title “God” for the Father (even in the Pastorals and the Johannine literature). The most plausible explanation is that in the earliest stage of Christianity, the OT heritage dominated the use of “God”; hence “God” was a title too narrow to be applied to Jesus. It referred strictly to the One in heaven whom Jesus addressed as Father and to whom he prayed.”

        Brown, R. (1994). An Introduction to New Testament Christology. Mahwah, New Jersey: Paulist Press. p. 192

        Trinitarians normally utilize a number of NT verses in an attempt to prove the Trinity particularly from John, which is the least historically accurate and the most theologically loaded, written by unknown authors, redacted heavily etc.The Prologue of John is a hot favourite, alongside Matthew 1:23 / Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 28:19 etc. But these are Eisegetical Interpretations! You see, YOU GUYS ARE THE ONES WHO ARE PROGRAMMED TO SEE TRINITY EVERYWHERE! You claim others are brainwashed, which is ironice since you guys were FORCED FED TRINITARIAN DOGMAN before you even found the ”verses” for it to be misinterpretated in the Bible, in the first place!!

        How many Christians naturally arrived at the Trinity for themselves, when reading the Bible solely without having it taught to them in sunday school etc? Nobody does! It’s forced into peoples heads!

        Jesus was not a Trinitarian. Every Scholar Testifies to that. And so does the Bible. John is literally a Forgery, and even John does not Talk about a Three Person God. Never.

    • Douglas wrote:
      “We have Jesus, son of God.”
      But the triune God can not so simply be separated mr.

      So, I hope you possibly will understand the following.
      This resembles the way, I even came to understand the principle of the Triune God

      The deeper meaning behind:
      1) – The term “The Triune God”?
      2) – The Triune God consists of: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
      3) – The term, the Triune God alludes to the fact, that:
      → The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one (echad), ie. an unchanging unity

      4) – Just as it says in Schema (Sh’ma):
      Deuteronomy 6: 4
      Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, THE LORD IS ONE.

      *ONE* is translated from the word *echad* which means: “one of many.”

      According to an Israeli scholar I corresponded with, sounded ‘Sh’ma’ probably like this around 1000 BC

      Sh’ma Ysrael ‘Yah Howeh’ Eloheinu ‘Yah Howeh’ echad.
      Hear Israel ‘Yah I am’ good ‘Yah I am’ one.

      You can maybe see the principle in Triune in the gramma::
      Because Yah Howeh = Eloheinu says He is eschad.

      Eloheinu (= God) – is plural
      echad (= one – (Strong 259)) – is singular.

      Incidentally, I’m a kind of an agnostic.

      • Thanks for contributing Jalmar. Indeed the Trinity is something that the Bible teaches and the Christian Church has believed for almost 2000 years. Unfortunately groups like the Jehovah’s Witnesses step outside of Christian orthodoxy by denying this theological truth. Instead of looking at what the Bible really teaches, they blindly follow Watchtower materials.
        by the way Jalmar, why are you ‘kind of an agnostic’?

  2. Douglas , you said : ” We have Jesus , the Son of God ” .

    I’m assuming you are a Jw so my question to you would be : but do you have a personal relationship with Jesus ?

  3. Re. JW.
    I have fought against the Watchtower and they self-proclaimed socalled ‘God’s chosen’ aka the Governing Body, since 2004 – because I cannot accept that:
    1) – They’re lying to have translated the basic Scriptures and what.
    2) – They have proven forged some of the most significant verses.
    3) – They lie to their followers on other believers.
    4) – And not least, they have a pretty odious compared to Sexual Child Abuse.
    (And because I wanted to fight them due to the above, I had to know the deeper background for both JW and Christianity. (And that is why, I have digged as deep as possible since 2004)
    Re. Agnostic, because I do not know if a divine being exist.
    There am I both an investigates and a seeker, :
    I acknowledge, that there are unknown forces between heaven and earth we can not understand yet.
    But, so far, my studies has convinced me, that these forces is not something one have to worship but respect.
    My view is based on the following background –
    Many believers claims, the Bible is dictated by the Almighty God.
    If so, the Bible would with guarantee be 100% flawless.
    But have unfortunately found too many failure and contradictions.
    • Re.: OT (written by unknowns between 1000BC-100BC), consists of a) proven copy-tales (eg. Adam & Eve/Noah, the Ark and the Flood) – Parables and Allegories (eg. Ezek 17:1-24 + Isa 5:1-6 + Dan 7:1-28) – (currently) unconfirmed stories and characters (eg. Abraham (and his descendants), Moses, Moses and the Exodus, Joshua/Hosea (son of nuh) – and some proven stories.
    • Re.: NT (7 epistles proven written by St. Paul – Three of the epistles, the experts disagreeing, three + Hebrews, all experts agree, is not St. Paul.
    The rest of the contents, is written by unknown authors.
    I cannot find any 100% proof, that the BIBLICAL character, Christ Jesus ever has live.
    • Philon of Alexandria (who coined the term “the word of God = ton logon theou” for the Messiah, and both had been at the Sea of Galilee, and in Jerusalem, while Christ Jesus lived, should have wrote something about Christ Jesus or His followers.
    • Justus of Tiberias, never mentioned Christ Jesus in his many works, although he grew up in Tiberias at the Sea of Galilee, but evidently never has heard about a man who walked on the water?
    • It is also thought provoking, that the following two authors did not mention the Christians at all:
    → Martial (AD40-104)
    • Martial wrote about everything happening in Rome – But he never mentioned neither Peter, Paul nor other Christians.
    → • *Decimus Iuvenālis* – (c. AD65- c. AD135)
    • Juvanal was a sharp Roman satirist, but did not write a single word about the Christians.
    • He obviously seems not it was worth impale neither Peter, Paul or other Christians with his sharp pen.
    But facts are also, that something important happened approx. AD30 and years beond.

  4. The doctrine of the sleep of the soul after death is not a “cultist” doctrine. Martin Luther, William Tyndale and John Wycliffe all taught the sleep of the soul after death, none of them were “cultists”.

    Ecclesiastes 9:5 speaks of things “under the sun”, but 9:10 says that there is no knowledge in Sheol, which is not “under the sun”.

    “If the Lord had not been my help, My soul would soon have dwelt in the abode of silence.” (Ps. 94:17, NASB)

    “Let me not be put to shame, O Lord, for I call upon You; Let the wicked be put to shame, let them be silent in Sheol.” (Ps. 31:17, NASB)

    “For there is no mention of You in death; In Sheol who will give You thanks?” (Ps. 6:5, NASB)

    “The dead do not praise the Lord, Nor do any who go down into silence;” (Ps. 115:17, NASB)

    “Salomon judgeth that the dead are a sleepe, and feele nothing at all. For the dead lye there accompting neyther dayes nor yeares, but when they are awoken, they shall seeme to have slept scarce one minute.” (Luther, Martin (1573), An Exposition of Salomon’s Booke, called Ecclesiastes or the Preacher.)

  5. Interesting responses or perhaps rants?

    I was a JW. I asked Jehovah to show me who his son was. I had no presuppositions of the trinity and no real understanding of the trinity. In fact I rejected the trinity.

    However as I read the Gospels including John (for which I see no evidence of redaction and would warn readers to be careful of liberal scholarship) it was clear Jesus was not simply presenting himself to Israel as a Messiah figure but he was claiming deity.

    Quite correctly within his sitz-im-leben Jesus did not outrightly explain any doctrines of tri-unity for he surely knew deeper explanations would come after his death. Subsequently when I read scripture with an open mind I was convinced that Jesus had taken upon himself the attributes of deity. That being said either he was a fake and a liar or we need reconciliation. The easy option is probably to state the unitarian position, Jew’s are monotheistic end of story. However to read scripture this way is to do so with only one eye open.

    The answer is to understand that the divine being YHWH is one in unity. For those whose minds are open to the possibility of this concept I would recommend the book:

    “Discovering the Mystery of the Unity of God” by John B. Metzler, M.A. – this huge work examines words, phrases and pericope from the OT which support an embryonic understanding of the unity of God. It is perhaps the most comprehensive book available showing that God did reveal himself as a plural unity in the OT. And it is written by a Jewish believer!

    At the end of the day we can fling scholars quotes around all day long. The question is do you know the Son of God? I believe if you know Jesus in personal relationship and not just theologically then you will know who he truly is – Amen.

    Every blessing

  6. simple123site,

    It’s obvious that you are a person who is very mad , sorry to see that . You also apparently feel that the Bible cannot be trusted since you said that the gospel of John is ” literally a forgery .”
    Given that you feel that way I’m not going to be able to reason with you about what the Bible teaches . I’ll just briefly going to respond to some of your arguments against Jesus’ Deity and I’ll use the Bible (despite your feelings about it ).

    You presented a lot of straw man arguments . You also attacked Pastor Tony in a way that was not justified .

    You mentioned the Crusades and the Inquisition and burning heretics at the stake as a way to prove what ? All that was a terrible doing , but that is supposed to prove a certain doctrine wrong ? I think rather that what it proves is that those who perpetrated those terrible deeds is what was wrong , they were evil persons .

    You cited James White and his book , ” The Forgotten Trinity ” . That is a book that rejects your denial of the Trinity . Yet all you could say is that the Trinity is ” simply confusing and self contradictory as well as non biblical ” .

    The Trinity is deep doctrine , and it can never be fully comprehended , but that is not a valid reason to reject it . The Bible does describe it ,but it like other doctrines about God ( how God can hear the prayers of all His worshipers worldwide each day etc ) is not easy to fully understand :

    ” Description of Phenomena Is Not To Be Confused With Comprehension Of Phenomena ”

    You mention Dr. William Craig Lane and that he admitted that the Trinity was not revealed in the O.T. , but that it is in the N.T.
    That is true , but it’s also true concerning other doctrines of the Christian faith as well .

    You then used a quote from the Encyclopedia Americana ( 1956 ) Volxxvii p 249 .

    That is a quote straight from the Watchtower book , “Reasoning From The Scriptures ” (1985) p 406 . Come to find out it’s in the Encyclopedia Americana in an article on Unitarianism , not the Trinity . No wonder you used it .

    Then you claimed that since a Rabbi agreed with Jesus about his quoting Mark 12:28-32 which ” always meant the worship of God, the Father alone to a Rabbi …”

    I wonder what if that Rabbi would have agreed with Jesus about him being the Messiah ? See my point ? Many significant teachings in the O.T. have been further expanded on in the N.T.
    While the apostles of Jesus maintained there believe that there is only one God they could not ignore the fact that Jesus was somehow related to this one God given what he said and did . It took a while for them to understand enough about Jesus that he was also worthy of their worship — Matt 14:33 ; 28:18 ; Heb 1:6 . Paul , a Jew , used O.T. verses and the truths in them about Jehovah / Yahweh to refer to Jesus — Isa 45:23 with Phil 2:9-11 . Paul was taught to pray to Jehovah — call upon His name ( Psalms 116:1-4 ; Joel 2:32 ) but then he met Jesus and accepted him as his personal Savior by calling on the name of Jesus — praying to him ( Acts 22:16 ) . The Father is well pleased when we treat His unique Son as He ( the Father ) wants to be treated , that is His will .

    You then used quotes from two N.t. scholars ( James Dunn , and Raymond Brown ) to bolster your belief . Problem is these men do NOT agree with your belief . If you would read more of their writings that just the one page from each you used , you would have seen that fact . On the very next page of Dunn’s book ( p 61 ) after what you quoted it says :

    ” Paul and Mark seem to agree that Jesus’ divine Sonship was a feature of his whole ministry…”

    On page 59 it says that the apostle John presents Jesus throughout his gospel conscious of his divine pre-existence as Son of God in heaven with the Father prior to his being sent to earth .

    In Brown’s book , from Appendix #3 it’s title reads: ” Did the N.T. Christian call Jesus God “?
    The answer to that question says :
    ” The question that forms the title of the Appendix must be answered in the affirmative .” (p 189)

    So your attempt to sound persuasive by using these two scholars failed completely .

    Lastly , you claimed that those who use the Prologue of John . Matt 1:23 ; Isa 7:14 ; Matt 28:19 to prove the Trinity was to engage in ” Eisegetical Interpretations” . Then you said :
    ” You guys are the ones who are programmed to see the Trinity everywhere.”

    That is quite the exaggeration . It’s a great example of your straw man arguments .

    I’ll leave you with a note that will aid you in finding the truth : You’re troubling yourself needlessly about the Trinity . Shine your spotlight on Jesus and see what the Bible reveals about Him . He stands ready to hear your prayer that you want Him as your Savior and Lord . The inner joy of meeting Him and praising and worshiping Him is a balm that can heal a restless soul searching for meaning in this life . A personal relationship / fellowship with the risen Savior and the Father lies at the heart of the Christian life — 1 Cor 1:9 ; 1Jn 1:3.

    Turn to Jesus today will you ? Sorting out any deep theology can wait , but Jesus asks you to ” Come unto Me ” — Matt 11:28 .

    I’ll be praying for you . Take care .

    • Thanks Mike,

      I had contemplated replying to this, but I simply didn’t have the time.

      Your final paragraph is key. “Your troubling yourself needlessly about the Trinity” – Your so right! Its all about Jesus. He is the key to knowing the Father, without a relationship with Jesus you simply cannot know the Father, for Jesus reveals the Father.

      “No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.” (John 1:18)

      I am reminded of the words of the elderly Apostle John after decades of pondering he wrote:

      “That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life—
      the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.” (1 John 1:1-3)

      That which is from the beginning = Jesus
      The life was made manifest = Jesus
      Eternal life was with the Father = Jesus
      Father made eternal life manifest = Jesus

      End product = We who believe have fellowship with the Father and the Son. We each have an intimate personal relationship, are laity that you so wonderfully capture; The inner joy of meeting Him and praising and worshiping Him is a balm that can heal a restless soul searching for meaning in this life.” – Amen!

      Thanks for your thorough rebuttal and your heartwarming invitation to meet the living Christ.

      God bless


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